JB Presents: Top Tier

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you're listening to locally produced programming created in KUNV Studios

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on public radio KUNV 91.5. The content of this program does not reflect the views or opinions of 91.5 Jazz and More, the University of Nevada Las Vegas, or the Board of Regents of the Nevada System of Higher Education.

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top tier. I'm your host Jordan McCray. I find things and I rank them. We are live. You are listening to Top Tier. And we are live coming to you from the first floor of Greenspun Hall on the campus of UNLV in the beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada. You are listening to Top Tier. My name is Jordan JB Jordan bro, whatever you want to call me

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That's me, and I'm your host and I am joined by a super special guest. My name is Jazzy Kittle I'm Jordan's childhood best friend. I live in Boise, Idaho And I currently go to Boise State University and I'm here visiting Jordan for her birthday weekend

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Yes, so it is a super special birthday episode. So for the listeners, if you don't know, I just turned 21. I had a crazy super fun weekend here in Las Vegas, invited some friends and some family had a wild Memorial Day weekend birthday weekend. But you know, I can't talk much about it because you want you want to know something. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. It sure does. Alright, but let's just get into this little podcast that we have for all of our reoccurring listeners. You already know how this works, but if I have some new listeners, I'll go ahead and break it down for y'all. So, essentially, I take things and I rank them. This entire season has been dedicated to food. So, it's been food items that fall into the same category and Jazzy, would you like to know what today's category is. Let me know, what is it? So me and Jazzy are both college students so typically we end up balling on a budget but today you know we're going to go outside a little bit of the budget and we are going to be ranking sit-down restaurants. So we're just going to be talking about the country's most popular sit-down restaurants and we're going to be ranking them you know based on the vibe of the restaurant, the quality of the food, you know, and typically what brings you and your party there. So how this show works is I like to go by a tier system. So we always start with bottom tier, the things that we don't really like, not the greatest, don't miss it, don't crave it at all. Next, we move on to our middle tier. I like to say the incredibly mid tier. And these are things that are typically good, but they're not great. Your good was waiting for you to be great. Just that. And you can crave it on occasion, but it's probably not your first choice, maybe not even your second choice. And then our last tier is the top tier. These are our absolute favorite things, our go-tos. They live in a special place in our heart. So, are you ready to get started? Let's do it. All right, we're gonna start with our bottom tier sit-down restaurants. And the first restaurant that I want to talk about actually breaks my heart a little bit to say this. No, because it is a family favorite in my own family. It's Cheesecake Factory.

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Bottom tier?

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I think so.

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Okay, so Cheesecake Factory, like y'all got some hits. Like that complimentary bread for the table. I was about to say, yes.

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I was like, that brown bread.

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And exactly, it's like, it's not both breads though. Like maybe the one person at the table will eat like the white bread, like a sourdough or something like that. But everybody is there for that brown wheat bread. Like I used to ask for my mom like can we get some chocolate bread? Yes Had to have it and that's like the one thing at Cheesecake Factory is like you have to have and the other thing it's like Duh the cheesecake. Yeah, so it's literally the very beginning of your meal and the very end exactly You know cuz they got every type of cheesecake and you know, the cheesecakes do taste typically really good I'm not the hugest cheesecake fan, but I'll even eat some of the slice. Maybe I won't finish it. Yeah, same And it's great that you brought up that the best parts are the beginning of the meal Yeah, and the end of the meal because all that middle that happens in the middle very iffy No, it's like the whole like book of a menu you have to get this. I like to say that Cheesecake Factory does a lot of things, but they don't do it very well.

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Yeah, it's like, there's too many. It's like, okay, yes, cheesecake is good. It's like, okay, but if I'm getting a meal before it, something better be actually good. Like something that I want to eat.

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And like, the thing is, is that like, because they have such a large menu, it kind of like inclines you to want to try something new every single time, but it's like you can't do that. It's like if you found something that you actually like from there, you might as well stick to it, because there is absolutely no guarantee that that thing that you want is actually gonna be good. And that's just really unfortunate, because my family, personally, if we have more than six people, any type of gathering, we're probably at Cheesecake Factory. At least back in the day. Not so much anymore. Nowadays, we'll maybe go around their lunch, breakfast time and we'll order off the breakfast menu. You know, but otherwise, I think we've all kind of moved on from Cheesecake Factory and it kind of sucks because it's very nostalgic for my childhood.

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Yes, because knowing you, I've known you forever, and you were always at Cheesecake Factory all the time. Like, every occasion it could be, dinner or whatever, like, it's a cheesecake. Like.

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And, but I'm just like, yeah, it's one of those things where it's like, as I got older, I'm like, man, this is not very good. And I'm not even gonna lie, a little tidbit for the viewers, the listeners, I'm just gonna say, I have applied at Cheesecake Factory multiple times to work there, and they have denied me every single time. Like, I've probably had at least three to four interviews at Cheesecake Factory wanting to work there at some point, and they're like, nah, we're not gonna call you back, or, mm, you didn't move on to the second interview. And I'm like, all right, okay, your food ain't even that good.

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No, because every time, they're always hiring, and then they just don't hire you. And it's like, okay, doesn't matter anyway.

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Exactly, what was the point? What was the reason? Come on, Cheesecake Factory. I wanted to love you so much, but for all of these reasons, you guys end up in the bottom tier.

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Sorry.

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For real, sorry, not sorry, to be honest. All right, so that is Cheesecake Factory. We're gonna move on to our last item in the bottom tier.

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Only two.

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Yes, only two in the bottom tier. For me, personally, it's Chili's. Mmm Chili's. See Chili's is interesting because I've been there so much because my dad, I don't know what it is with him and Chili's, but we would be at Chili's all the time. It's like an after school, after he picks us up, we go get like some food. But no matter the amount of times I've been there, it's always like, eh. I end up getting like the fajitas or something and it's like Just like chicken and then like some tortillas and like some like grilled like veggies and I'm like I don't know why I keep getting it like I could reach out You want to know what I heard about like when they bring out fajitas that it's like kind of fake hot Like all they do is they spray an oil on it to get it sizzling. Yes I've seen that and i'm like wow i've been lied to Cuz you know if you if anybody ever gets fajitas and you could see the smoke you can hear it sizzling Every table is looking at you. Yeah, you're like you are now the star of the show You are the it girl just because you decided to order some fajitas Yeah, and the little show ain't even real and I don't make me disappointed but my thing about Chili's is yes like the cuisine is kind of geared towards like Tex-Mex, but I don't really like Tex-Mex. There's something about the like the fact that it's like kind of mixed with like Texas type of cooking. It's just like I've never really enjoyed it. So like that's my main thing about Chili's and then yeah like the things that they do is just kind of like weird because they try and sometimes make it like Americanized Like I had like a Tex-Mex taco burger one time from Chili's. I'll never forget it It was like it's kind of like a taco burger. It had like avocados with some like a beef patty and the guacamole I I remember eating it and I was like once I tasted like a burger and once I tasted like a taco it was not appetizing because like I started on the second half of the burger I was like wait this feels like it tasted different it didn't feel consistent hmm and yeah like I also feel like why are you guys eating at Chili's? There's not like any like occasion that you're like oh let's go to Chili's for this it's like kind of one of those random like oh I guess we can eat at Chili's. It's like, Oh, it's kind of late. It's like, okay, what's gonna not take too long. It's not like they got all wait. And it's just like, okay, there's a little something for everyone. At least with like Cheesecake Factory. It's like, okay, we're after we're there after a graduation. We're there for the birthdays. Like, if you say that you choose to celebrate your birthday at Chili's. I'm gonna side-eye you like bombastic side-eye.

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Alright, welcome to Chili's.

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Like, that's...

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For real, I'm just like, mmm... You're not iconic. No. Like, your food, even though they do kind of have like a staple like of tech snacks, of sit-down restaurants, It is very Americanized. That is correct. Because I'm like, everything there, I'm like it's not super like into the theme that it's supposed to be supposed to have. I'm just like you you kind of made yourselves unique but then you didn't focus on it enough. Yes. And for that it's just like you're not that great. Sorry I hate to break it to you Chili's you're not that great. So that is why Chili's has landed in the bottom tier. To give y'all a reminder, it was Chili's and Cheesecake Factory that made up the bottom tier. Next up, we're going to move on to our middle tier, the Incredibly Mid, and I just want to start off the conversation with some place that is actually kind of fun. It's actually two places because they're essentially the same thing, It is Denny's slash I hop

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Hmm. Yeah, same thing. Yeah, like if you compare them, yeah same all that mid Yeah, sounds reasonable

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Okay, cuz I feel like for most it's like I hop is kind of the one that's like the more family-friendly version It's like, okay, we're gonna go here and like the afternoon and with like my whole family You know like a little kids menu. Yeah.

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Maybe some sprinkles on it.

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But I feel like IHOP is also like a hungover place. Like, yeah, this is we went to sleep, still woke up a little drunk and we're like, I need starch and pancakes. Meanwhile, Denny's is the place that you're hitting up straight after the club and it's like 3am in the morning.

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Yes.

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And my thing about like, yes, it's good breakfast food, but it's definitely not the highest quality. Like, if you want better quality breakfast, you're better off going to a diner that's not a major chain or just a mom and pop kind of owned breakfast spot. Like, I'm just gonna let y'all in on one little thing that we did on my birthday weekend. We ate at Mimosa Gourmet, so of course we had the mega mimosa, but man, like, they took care of our table. That is all I'm gonna say. That was probably the best little birthday surprise that they gave me. They gave everybody a round of shots on the house.

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At a brunch?

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Yes.

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At like noon?

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Yes.

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After we had already taken shots and I was just looking, I was just like, man, they're the best. They gave me a little hat on my head. I was like, man, you're not gonna get this type of service at a Denny's or an IHOP.

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No.

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You're not. You know, but back to Denny's and IHOP. Their food's like, OK, this little do is not the best. And also, if you are pulling up to a Denny's at like 3 o'clock, 4 o'clock in the morning, your service is going to kind of be

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lame.

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Oh, yeah.

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I was going to say, you're either going to have to wait forever for a table, even though it's empty. And it's like they gotta find the time to come and seat you. And then you're gonna take forever to actually wait and get the food. There's one and a half servers, like two cooks in the kitchen, and like even though it is basically empty, it's not popping at all, every single table is dirty. Like they will not bus a thing. The amount of times I walked into a Denny's late night and it's just like every like they were literally cleaning off the table that

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They want to see you out So Looking like exactly and it's just like okay like yes, I

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Understand like I'm here to order off of like the two four fives the two four six eight Type of menu like I just need my grand slam and then I'm gonna go. You know you just need a little fix. But like there could be a little bit more effort. Yeah just a little something like at least I'm coming here because you're one of the places that are still open. Right you know and that's I feel like I don't ever eat at a Denny's anymore in like the middle of the day. Oh no. You know like I'm never choosing that as the oh hey let's all go to brunch let's go to Denny's. No one's saying I don't think I've ever Yeah, he's in the middle of my friends are not going to Denny's at like one o'clock in the afternoon on a Sunday Like that's not what we're choosing. No And for that, that's why you guys end up in the mid tier because you satisfy the craving But you are most definitely not the go-to Next up in our middle tier, we're going to talk about Red Lobster. In mid? Yes. Hmm. I like to kind of stand by this one. I see it. I see why though. I mean I haven't been there a good amount of times to be like, oh no but I like everything on that menu. I just know. Those like, so like yummy. The Cheddar Bay biscuits. Okay, Red Lobster to me is kind of like one of those gimmicky places where as a kid, I thought this place was fancy as a mother. They got the pink, like the live like crabs, you're like, oh, it's right here on the spot.

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Yeah. Oh, and then like the biscuits themselves, like those aren't

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just yo grandmama's biscuits like those biscuits are astronomically good like the like garlicky buttery and they're so soft but the best part but everything else on the menu i feel like is mint like i've had like their pastas you know like their seafood pasta yeah i feel like that's what i get get there because I'm like, they're not that great. No, they're not that great. No, they're really not. Like, if you want like a pasta, you might as well go to a place that's like, actually like, serving Italian food. Yeah. And like, another thing is that like, if you want seafood, you're better off going to a different chain of like seafood, like a hot and juicy here in Las Vegas. Like if you really want a good broil, if you want a good lobster, red lobster should not be your first choice or even like your third choice. It's down the list. But you know, red lobster has its moments because I feel like that's a place where like your grandma is like, I'm gonna have my birthday dinner and we're going to red lobster. I swear, like, anytime we ended up at a Red Lobster when I was younger, it was an occasion and that one person was like, I choose this place and we're like, okay, okay. It's like it's so old. Like it's like, I don't think it was ever like my parents. It's like we're all there like aunties, uncles, you know, cousins. Yeah. But I'm like, I feel like they were there because of like my grandma, like the oldest person in our family. They're like, ooh, bed luster, that'll be it. I'm like, okay. It's like, it's probably a great place to celebrate like your little birthday, your little graduation, you know.

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Sometimes it's a little fancy, get some seafood, you know.

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Yeah, but it's not that fancy.

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It's yeah, it is not.

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Yeah, after getting older, I was like, oh, this place is not as fancy as I really thought it was. It's really just not it and honestly that's why Red Lobster kind of falls in the mid tier because they're a little fake. They're a little fake. They got the biscuits that's holding them over just a little bit but nah. Everything else no. I'm going somewhere else before I go to Red Lobster. And then we're gonna move on to our next item in the middle tier and for me it's going to be Applebee's hmm I agree with you on that one it is mid the food it's not like it's gonna be crazy amazing but I am a fan of Applebee's I know some people are like why would you ever choose your Applebee's but I like some of their like random food items I got on their menu yes it'd be good like I feel like their appetizers like their appetizers for sure go hard No, I don't know why but those are the only things I will order I will order like a bunch of appetizers and that will be my meal and then Applebee's also always has like a deal going on Like I'm pretty sure it was like a couple years ago It was like you could get two appetizers for like 20 or 25 dollars Yeah, you know like pretty economic and like you could just share it with like one other person. They always have a two-person can-dine type of deal going on. You're getting a full-course meal and it's like $50. And then they have relatively good food for their theme. They're like American-type food. Not that it's new. They do the classics, the steaks. And it's not bad. I feel like almost everything I've had at Applebee's, I'm like, oh, okay, this is good. You know, whether it's your baby back ribs or burgers.

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Yes, yes.

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And then that's another place that I feel like I actually enjoyed eating there as a kid. Yeah. Like with their little kids menu and ordering off of that. You know, because I feel like that's also one of those places where it's like families will go there just on a random night just because they're like, oh, it's quick, you know, service is gonna be okay, and we can get in and out. But like, also, Applebee's also has like this crazy happy hour that they do on Tuesdays. I, me personally, I'm excited to pull up to an Applebee's on a Tuesday, just so I can order off their little happy hour menu, and save me some money. Like for a sit down restaurant, for like what you get for the price, I feel like it's pretty good at Applebee's.

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Oh yeah, because every time I've been to Applebee's in the past like, oh, I don't know, couple years, especially being a college student and I'm balling on a budget, they have their happy hour twice a day for like three hours and it's like three to six and then like nine to close and it's half off all appetizers. So every appetizer is like $5. So you just order a bunch of appetizers because there's every little thing you could want to try and they're all decently good Like my one favorite dish at Applebee's is their chicken wonton tacos It's like so random for Applebee's but they're so good Yeah, crispy, yeah, and it's like a little taco shape There's many they give you like four and it's like oh with a good little like Asian kind of slaw and like some sauce on it oh I don't know why but they're so good it hit every time I get them it hits it's like it's definitely not upscale like yeah there's probably a little bit of like quality issues but it's like hey those are young I'm still

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gonna choose it am I gonna celebrate anything at Applebee's probably not

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Probably not.

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Probably not.

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No.

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But I'm still going to want to go there on occasion. Like if there's a deal going on, I'm going to Applebee's. If I'm paying full price for anything, probably not. No, because it's like if you go there for the half-pipe appetizers and those will get you like a whole meal if you just order a bunch of them. And then if you want a drink, they have like all these deals during happy hour as well. So it's like, cool, I'm getting this deal on. And that's why Applebee's lands in the mid, because you're good, especially for the price. Especially for the discounts. So I think that's gonna wrap up our little conversation that we're having on Applebee's, and now we're gonna wrap up our last item in the middle tier, and for me, it's going to be BJ's.

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Yeah, I agree, because, I don't know, maybe it's just coming from Roseville. Everyone loves BJ's for some reason. And I never knew what the hype was

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other than their $3 pizookies on Tuesdays. Yes, and like the pizookies are great because they have different types of like little pie cookies or whatever.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Give you some ice cream on top. But every time I have gone to BJ's and like had dinner and then wanted to get dessert, I've had to wait like an hour for my food because they're always packed they're always super busy yeah the kitchen is slow oh and then don't try and even get a pizza because that's gonna take even longer than everything on their menu especially if it's a deep dish oh yeah they're gonna tell you straight up they're like it's like an hour it's like an extra 20 minutes actually exactly behind everybody else's food so it's like if you want to make that choice it's like you're gonna be the one person that's not eating and you're just like oh your food tastes good. I'm so waiting for mine. Yeah cuz there's always a line or a wait like you'll show up at BJ's and they're like um it's a 45-minute wait okay I'm like why this place is so big you have so many tables and every single one is full. I'm like, why?

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Why?

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And it's like, okay, it's like a little sports brew house. You know, like they probably have, yeah, they have all these different types of beers, but I, there is someone, a different restaurant in the top tier that I feel like has that, but does it better. And I am waiting for BJs to just not be overhyped, because I feel like that's what it is.

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It's too overhyped for me.

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It is way too overhyped. So BJ's do better. It's so crazy because all the BJ restaurants look exactly the same. And it's like, make a bigger restaurant. Make more tables. I know it's already big. And it has its own spot in the parking lot.

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It's a whole giant building.

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And then also, I just want to say, the hostesses at BJ's, they're kind of mean.

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Always!

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They're like, what's your phone number? I'm like, okay, I don't even know, I want to come back.

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Because they know that you're really just there for the pizookies.

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Yeah.

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And like, they're tired of you. Yes, and by the time you get to the table, they're like, so we're getting pizookies?

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And you're like, yeah.

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Yeah.

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But hey, like BJ's also has like a pizookie like sampler where you get like mini ones. Yeah, I've seen those! And you get all the flavors! Like, we're there for the pizookies, like your pasta is okay. Like you have good pasta and stuff like that. But just because you have to literally map out like three hours out of your night just to eat there. And maybe you're still going on past three hours. That's just crazy to me. Oh yeah, cause last time I was there, it wasn't even a Tuesday. Still packed as it could be. It took us a long time to get all our food. We were there for at least three hours. And I think I got a burger, and I was like, why did I order this? It was like, just waiting for dessert. Exactly. And for me, that's why BJ's, you fall in the middle tier, because yeah, it's probably a good place to celebrate something. But also just the fact that you have to be there for so long, you're waiting for so long. I'm just hangry. Yeah. And for all my listeners and friends that know me well, I am not a fun person to be around when I'm hangry. True, I can attest to that. So that's going to wrap up our middle tier. We had Red Lobster, Denny's slash IHOP, Applebee's and BJ's in the middle tier. And now we are moving on to our top tier restaurants. Yeah. Running a little bit low on time, but we got this. The first restaurant that I'm going to talk about in the top tier was actually the restaurant I feel like is it as hyped as BJ's and should be more appreciated than BJ's. And for me, it's Yardhouse. I just went there too. And they like, I never really knew what the hype was about Yardhouse as like a kid, because I'm like, Oh, what is this place? It's dark in here. There's like a bar like what and then as I got older Like in the high school and afterwards I was like dang look at all this food they got and it's good Like oh, I remember eating at Yardhouse like early in my high school days, and I remember it just like being like, okay I don't feel like this is a restaurant for me because it was like so dark Yeah, like the food that I got I was like, okay like this is okay It's not great and like it was kind of weird because Yardhouse has like a new American vibe. So they take like classics and they have like a fun little twist on everything and I think just that time it just was I wasn't ready and I think they also had a rebrand and like added more elements to their restaurant. I remember going there later and now it's like my family's go-to restaurant for us to eat and drink at. Because they have an awesome menu for drinks and stuff like that. And then just their food items, it's like they have at least two or three things that you're like, oh, I love this. And I was like, oh, that looks really good. This is a hard choice, because I'm like, do I want the lobster garlic noodles? Do I want the jambalaya? Do I want one of their burgers with a maple bacon on it? They have so many good options. And then also their drinks aren't that expensive. For like an actual cocktail, like usually you're paying like 10 to maybe 13 dollars. Yes, no because I also recently turned 21 a few months ago and I was like oh wow these are actually, I don't know why but I thought they would be more expensive but I was like and they're good like they are good. They are really good and I feel like the service is always really nice. Like if you have to wait, you're not waiting for long. It's like a 15 minute wait for a table. And it is like a sports bar. So like you can go with like your friends and either like sit at the bar and watch a game or sit in a booth and watch the game and watch the TVs. And like you're in and out of there in like two hours instead of AJ's where you're hangry and you're waiting there for three hours and you might not even be able to see a clean shot of a TV. True, true. So I'm like, Yardhouse, whatever you're doing, keep on doing it because you guys are great and I love eating there. Now we are going to move into our last item on the top tier list before we wrap up this episode and send you guys off. I'm like torn on this restaurant because I'm like, I don't really like the setting, but every time I've ate there, the food is actually good.

0:28:28
It's Cracker Barrel.

0:28:29
Dang.

0:28:30
For real.

0:28:31
Yes.

0:28:31
Um, this is not a kid's podcast. This is, you know, for my listeners that are a little adult-ish and, you know, we're aware of like the social settings and things like that. I like to say that Cracker Barrel is, here's your food with a side of racism. Yeah, bing! But the food is gonna be so good! Yes, and because it's like a southern-like kind of place, the portions are big. They are! Like, I can't even finish half of this. It's like, when I think about it, like, because I've ate off of like their breakfast menu and I've also ate off of like their lunch dinner menu, and I'm like, I've enjoyed it both. I'm like, it's better than your type of like Denny's and IHOP because like your breakfast is just more tasty, more delicious. Like they have that potato like hash. It's like a potato casserole hash and it's like so freaking good.

0:29:27
It's so yum.

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I like had this like sweet chicken tenders that were like fried and they were crispy and like they had like sweet sauce on them. I was like, what the heck? This is all so good. Yeah. That place, it might be like diabetes on a plate, but like that's what makes it so delicious. True. And you know, like my family is kind of southern. I would say it's the exact southern food that I grew up, but it's very close to it. And I'm just like, man, it's good. I like feel really weird eating there. And I just like look around at like the photos and stuff. I'm like, hey, they have a cute little gift shop. Yeah, it's like, okay, maybe the older crowd that goes there might get some looks because I'm eating at this place that probably might not be like that. Exactly, it's just the fact that, first of all, the rocking chairs that are on the front, they give me weird vibes. And the people who actually rock in them, I'm like, no. Why? No, not in that wraparound porch at the front, no. And then, like, the Cracker Barrel logo has a whip on it, and that's all I have to say.

0:30:30
It does?

0:30:31
I'm just like, eugh.

0:30:32
It does?

0:30:33
You're like, eugh.

0:30:34
Like, why are we bringing back this, like, olden days aesthetic when it was so scary? And, you know, they've been in the news, and, like, they're kind of controversial, you know, like, there are things- Why are you writing this? They do have claims against them, but I'm like, it's one of those things where I'm like I could separate the art from the artist. Yeah. Because the art, the food, so good. So good. So yeah I don't know if that's a hot take or what but Cracker Barrel you might have my business again I'm just saying. I would actually especially when you compare it to other chain breakfast restaurants I'm like yeah you're doing something right. So yeah, that is actually going to wrap up our top tier. The top tier restaurants we had were Yardhouse and Cracker Barrel. And that comes to the end of the restaurant. For all you Texas Roadhouse fans, I've never eaten at it. We tried to go to Texas Roadhouse today. And I just couldn't, like, cause they were closed. And I was just like, can't. Yeah, apparently they're only open for like dinner time. Yeah, I don't know if it was memorial hours or what but I was a little disappointed because I wanted to rank them But we cut it. So that is the end of this episode. I wanted to say thank you so much to my guest Jazzy Kittle I literally I'm so happy that she got to be here She's like one of my like first fans of my podcast and the fact that she's here and on an episode I'm just like super happy about it. Oh, it's a pleasure No, no, I loved I love being on it. It's amazing. Yeah. And then to my listeners, I want to say thank you all so much for listening to my podcast. It means the world to me. You can catch me every Friday at 6pm on the Rebel HD2 app. You can also listen to me on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Audible, and on Amazon Music, everywhere. I am everywhere and maybe even YouTube coming soon. Alright and that's gonna end off this episode. I hope you guys all have a great night. Toodles! Thank you so much for tuning into this episode. I appreciate every single one of you. Toodles! Thank you so much for tuning into this episode. I appreciate every single one of you. I hope all of you guys have a great night.

Transcribed with Cockatoo